tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post7202978342895408474..comments2023-08-06T07:02:49.496-04:00Comments on Little Steps Home: Day 8: 3 - 4 - 5 ?Amberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09002997517784638068noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-2590856015939262562012-11-12T10:57:13.900-05:002012-11-12T10:57:13.900-05:00But even with the merging, the standard is still t...But even with the merging, the standard is still that there are five daily prayers that are required, right?<br /><br />And I still count four from the referenced ayah.<br /><br />Which means nothing, of course, since I'm just me and just reading what I read. But still. Four.Amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09002997517784638068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-66739155648548497242012-11-12T10:54:15.474-05:002012-11-12T10:54:15.474-05:00I'm here to help. :pI'm here to help. :pAmberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09002997517784638068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-51190234934309720782012-11-12T10:54:00.024-05:002012-11-12T10:54:00.024-05:00Thanks! I don't know why I couldn't find t...Thanks! I don't know why I couldn't find that hadith when I was looking for it! :) <br /><br />I look forward to hearing anything that you find if you get the time. Amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09002997517784638068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-36112257653944933452012-11-12T10:47:11.766-05:002012-11-12T10:47:11.766-05:00Yep. That's the one! I forgot Moses was involv...Yep. That's the one! I forgot Moses was involved. Thanks!<br /><br />"This hadith thinks that Moses and Muhammad know better what we can do than Allah. >.<"<br /><br />Or...there's a long tradition in Judaism of the prophets arguing with God. Maybe this can be seen as on the same level as that? Not that God doesn't know what He's doing, but that there's something about the prophets standing up for the people that He's put them 'in charge' of that God wants from them.Amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09002997517784638068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-62711903122942185082012-11-09T08:08:47.652-05:002012-11-09T08:08:47.652-05:00Having attempted to do the prayers in the past log...Having attempted to do the prayers in the past logically 3 makes more sense. The two afternoon prayers always seemed mashed together. My Shia friends are allowed to merge the afternoon prayers and then the evening prayers so many of them actually do 3 prayer sessions a day. I cannot remember why this is allowed.LKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06170091976914539273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-68910587065404705772012-11-09T07:37:04.319-05:002012-11-09T07:37:04.319-05:00Thanks for reminding me of Heather's post. I h...Thanks for reminding me of Heather's post. I had it saved to read so I went and read it before reading this. I enjoyed your questions over there and your discussion here.<br /><br />I have nothing to add since I'm not a Muslim. Not that that's stopped me before... *ahem*<br /><br />:)<br /><br />I enjoyed your post!Susannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03115294023069458287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-64976363378096656182012-11-08T22:06:54.147-05:002012-11-08T22:06:54.147-05:00I am not sure what is the proof from the Quran tha...I am not sure what is the proof from the Quran that Muslims should pray five times a day. But from the authentic hadiths it is something Muslim scholars agree on. Here is the hadith you mentioned at the end of your post.<br />Muslim scholars agree the following hadith is ‘sahih’ (i.e., authentic. )<br />343. Ibn Hazm and Anas ibn Malik said that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Allah prescribed fifty prayers for my community and I returned with that until I passed by Musa. He said, 'What has Allah prescribed to you for your community?' I said, 'He has prescribed fifty prayers.`" He said, 'Go back to your Lord. Your community will not be able to manage that.' He made me go back and He reduced it to half. Then I returned to Musa and I said, 'He reduced them to half.' He said, 'Go back to your Lord. Your community will not be able to manage that.' I returned and He halved them again and I returned to him. He said, 'Go back to your Lord. Your community will not be able to manage that.' I returned to Him and He said, "'They are five and they are fifty. My word does not change.' I went back to Musa and he said, 'Return to your Lord. I said, 'I am too embarassed before my Lord.' Then he took me on until he brought me to the Lote-tree of the Boundary which was covered in colours which I did not recognise. Then I was brought into the Garden and in it were strings of pearls and its earth was made of musk." (Muwatta, Book 9, 9)<br />Source: http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Hadith/H0002P0008.aspx<br />I did a quick search and found that some scholars find the proof from the Quran from different chapters (sura). I will investigate more later and will let you know what I find. <br />As far as I know, the five times prayers are something we know about from the many hadiths not from the Quran. But I have to double check. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5080372433953859587.post-44931025277073693902012-11-08T21:13:14.633-05:002012-11-08T21:13:14.633-05:00I'm only popping in to comment on that "f...I'm only popping in to comment on that "from 50 to 5 prayers". That story is from the hadith. Here's the excerpt I found from "Sahih Muslim":<br /><br />"...Then Allah revealed what He revealed to me. He then made obligatory for me fifty prayers every night and day.<br />I began my descent until I reached Moses who asked me: 'What has your Lord made obligatory for your community?' I said to him, 'Fifty prayers.' He then said, 'Return to your Lord and ask Him to reduce them, your community will not be able to bear that. I know the people of Israel from long experience and I have tested them.' I then returned to my Lord and said, 'O Lord, make things lighter for my people'. He then reduced it by five prayers for me. I then returned to Moses and he said to me, 'Your community will not be able to stand that. So return and ask Him to make things lighter.' I kept going between my Lord and Moses until Allah said, 'O Muhammad, there are five prayers every night and day. Each prayer is equal to ten prayers making them equal to fifty prayers."<br /><br />Basically, we have Allah saying pray 50 (according to this hadith), but then Moses says "No! People can't do that!" and had Muhammad running back and forth between Moses and Allah. This hadith thinks that Moses and Muhammad know better what we can do than Allah. >.< Just one of many, many issues I have with the hadith. I'm not gonna get started.<br /><br />I get the impression from the Qur'an that it's less a set number of times to pray in a day than it is for us to constantly be seeking contact with Allah and reminding ourselves of Him. Which is why you'll see people saying anywhere from 3-5 are required, and then there are the night prayers (where you wake up in the night to pray), which are considered "good but not compulsory".Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17017554278813071029noreply@blogger.com