Explaining how I came to this question would take too long, and it's not really important. Suffice it to say I was reading a thread on OrthodoxChristianity and this was a topic that was raised.
So, I put it to my readers (pokes Susanne):
Do you do what you do, religiously and otherwise (because I'm assuming that all readers are religious and therefore their faith informs their 'secular' actions), because you believe it will get you in to heaven, or because it brings glory to God?
*puts on Trans Siberian Orchestra while you think*
Oooooooo.
ReplyDeleteI say I'm more of the "Glory to God" type. doing only good things or following your religion strictly for reward seems to defeat the purpose. I do it to find a way to be closer to God and to best praise Him for all he has done.
I think there are stages in a person's spiritual life. Sth might be done because it is considered as the right thing to do and the thing that God would like you to do. Sth might not be done because of the fear that it will lead to "punishment". This punishment of course is no other than the distance from God and the loss of His grace and of the sense of His presence. Once somebody starts experiencing the coming and going of grace according to one's choices, gradually one passes from doing sth in order to achieve "reward"(=heaven)to doind sth in order to please God and to remain close to Him and of course to glorify His name. So one usually begins his relationship with God motivated by fear -either of punishment, or of loss of whatever gained by that time- and slowly moves on to being motivated by love. As time goes by this love becomes clearer and purer. So that all our actions are driven by this love only and everything we do is an act of glorification.Sorry for such a long text and excuse my english
ReplyDeleteOuch! *swats irritating poking finger aside* That was a hard poke, Woman. *ahem*
ReplyDeleteI do it for both, kind of. I believe in Jesus and follow Him because He is the Way to the Father (according to His words in John 14:6). And, to me, that means eternal life (John 3:16), therefore, heaven.
However, in day-to-day living, I seek to obey God because this pleases Him. I don't live each day thinking, "OK, I need to do X and Y and Z so I can make it to heaven." Trusting Christ's work on the cross has covered that. The obedience and good works are done as a result of living for Him. Actually it's HIM living through me if John 15 is correct. On my own I can't really do anything much that pleases the Father.
Good thinkie!!
LK,
ReplyDelete'doing only good things or following your religion strictly for reward seems to defeat the purpose'
See, that's what I think too. If you're only doing something for the reward, or to avoid a punishment, I think it takes away from the act itself, somehow.
Athena,
ReplyDeleteNever apologize for a long post! :) And your English is just perfectly clear.
*nods* I like the way you put it - doing something for the reward/punishment is how a person starts out, when they lack maturity, as it were, and then, as they mature, it becomes motivated by love of God, which leads to glorification. Excellent. So it's not an either/or, but a progression. :)
*shakes off swat* I don't know what you're talking about. *innocent look*
ReplyDeleteBut, and I think this goes back to a question I'd asked a long time ago, are you motivated only by the promise of reward? Or the threat of punishment?
And, I believe your second paragraph answers that. You believe that you'll get a reward, but you're not motivated solely for the reward itself. Or, at least, that's the impression I got from what you said. :)
*pokes Susanne and runs*
You'd better run! :-P***
ReplyDelete:-)
*turns back, does Roadrunner impression* Meep Meep!
ReplyDelete:)
I reckon it depends on what your definition of 'heaven' and 'glory' are ...?
ReplyDeleteHm, well, since everyones exact idea of what heaven will be like is different, I'll just go with the general, heaven = the carrot to go with the stick (hell).
ReplyDeleteSo, to phrase the question another way, do you do what you do because you believe that doing xyz will get you into heaven (or allow you to avoid hell), or do you do it simply because it brings glory to God? (Glory, being, or course, defined as 'praise, honor' etc.)
So you do it for your sake, or for God?
I would say it's more for the "glory of God". I never think of heaven or hell... In a way I'm a weak believer maybe because I haven't developped "fear of God" much at all. So I'm not scared of hell, and I don't really concern myself with being rewarded with heaven. This makes me answer that I do it for the glory of God, but I am also not that much in that frame of mind directly... I feel that God is everything good (that yes, good is created by God, but in a way, that is His essence, so he *is* goodness) and this is why I do what I do... Just the desire to attain "good". I have a hard time imagining God to the point that I have a hard time feeling like I am concretely glorifying him... kwim?
ReplyDeleteCandice,
ReplyDeleteAn interesting response. Our whole religious system (I'm thinking specifically of the Abrahamic faiths) is based on the assumption that God *is* good. Not just that He makes the good things, but that He is, in his essence, Good. The Ultimate Good. So, in order to either be more like Him, or be in His grace, or however you want to put it, we strive to also be good and do good. But, of course, we can't help but fall short of His Good. *ponders*
So, to phrase the question another way, do you do what you do because you believe that doing xyz will get you into heaven (or allow you to avoid hell), or do you do it simply because it brings glory to God? (Glory, being, or course, defined as 'praise, honor' etc.)
ReplyDeleteSo you do it for your sake, or for God?
Neither... I do what I do BECAUSE of the Father...
Ahavah,
ReplyDelete'Neither... I do what I do BECAUSE of the Father...'
All right, I'm gonna need you to expand/explain that one a bit. What do you mean by 'because of the Father'?
I took Ahavah's answer to mean she does what she does because "without Me you can do nothing" (John 15 - Jesus.) That whole God-working-in-and-through-me thing. That's how *I* took it. Now I eagerly await Ahavah's reply. :)
ReplyDeleteOoohhh...you're probably right Susanne.
ReplyDeletePsalm 66:16
ReplyDeleteCome and listen, all you who fear God; let me tell you what he has done for me.
1 Peter 1:2
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
Proverbs 2:5
then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
That help any? Maybe I should write up how I met Yesuha (aka Jesus)? Probably read something like Armeggedon though.. so maybe not....
Ahavah,
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm always up for a good apocalyptic tale, I do understand now. :)