I am...mostly amused by this post. But I want to write it, so I will!
Candice just recently did a post reevaluating her stance on sex toys in Islam. (Also, this post has nothing to do, specifically, with Candice's post, which is why I'm not replying over there!)
After I read it, and stopped giggling (which, I mean no insult or disrespect, okay? But it's *amusing* to me that there has to be religious rulings on what is and is not acceptable in the sex life of a married couple.), I remembered that there are Christians who have these hang ups too. And that, also, amuses me.
My point of view is this:
Once you're married? Anything that is consensual and pleasurable between you is a-okay!
The point of sex (aside from reproduction) is to bring the couple closer. To make them one. Right? It's all about closeness and love and intimacy.
Here's the thing. Everyone has kinks. Everyone. You may not *think* it's a kink. You may think it's the most vanilla thing out there and 'kink' only applies to whips and chains. And you'd be wrong.
Do you like having sex with your spouse in the middle of the day? Does that make it extra special? Extra arousing?
That's a kink. And I'm not even talking about especially bendy sex there. Just plain, old fashioned, sex.
Anything the idea of which serves to heighten your arousal and enjoyment is a kink. Got it?
ALSO, *gets on soapbox*, in spite of the general perspective on BDSM sex, it too is meant to be all about closeness and love. It's not just about the sex - it's about the trust and the ability to give yourself over to someone else. Got it? *hops off of soapbox*
The important aspect is that everything done during sex between two people must be done out of love and mutual pleasure.
Which is why *I* personally think that it's very, very, very important for a couple to discuss their sexual preferences and needs prior to marriage. I'm not talking like, first date or anything. But when it's serious? When you're considering getting engaged?
This is a talk that needs to happen. Because if you're not sexually compatible and/or not willing to try the things that make your spouse happy? You're going to either have a really miserable marriage, or a really short one. Or a little bit of both.
I know, for myself, that I have certain very specific kinks. I own those kinks and a lifetime of sex without them would not be fully satisfying to me. So if and when I find someone that I want to marry, we will be having that talk.
I should start a tag about sex in marriage! I really do wish everyone would write about it. If everyone could be comfortable getting their ideas out there, they might be comfortable about talking and experimenting with their partners and really improve their marriage with that!
ReplyDeleteI don't find it funny really to have a post both about religion and sex. Religion for a lot of people is a way of life and Islam is probably the religion that encompasses EVERYTHING more than any other so it's normal to wonder what is allowed or not especially when it's as important as sex. People wonder what is allowed or not in so many idiot trivial things (again, this is especially found in Islam).
But really when it comes to sex and people who are religious, the Christians are normally more conservative than the Muslims. That has been my experience maybe because I know Catholics and sex is not generally something that is to be done for pleasure (although no one is saying that pleasure is banned of course but you know what I mean) And in Islam, there's a lot of importance on the two being sexually satisfied.
I agree with you about BDSM and think it can be an exciting, fun and rewarding experience for a couple if they're into it.
And yes, "the talk" is very important. How open is the prospective spouse to things that you are interested in trying or to things that turn you on. It's a bit difficult to have when the people are not comfortable talking about it and that just sucks. I wish everyone was open about discussing sex and learning about sex before getting married.
what is bdsm?
ReplyDeleteCandice,
ReplyDeleteYou should! It's really an interesting topic. And I find the people who are comfortable with their own sexual needs and wants are the ones who are comfortable talking about sex. Without blushing and stammering like twelve year olds. :D
Sorry, it wasn't the concept of having a post about religion and sex that was funny to me. It's actually the entire concept that someone has to sit back and ask someone else, 'is it okay with God if I give my husband a blowjob?'.
But that may be my own personal views on sex coloring everything. Like I said, is it consensual and enjoyable for both of you? Have at it! I think, as long as it brings the couple closer together then it's fulfilling part of the purpose of sex in marriage.
Islam does have rules for everything. That appeals to part of me, and drives me nuts all at the same time. :D
But really when it comes to sex and people who are religious, the Christians are normally more conservative than the Muslims.
I don't know enough Muslims well enough to get a personal sample on that one, but I think you're probably right. Somewhere along the lines the idea that sex is only for procreation got into the Western Christian mindset (I don't know enough about how it's viewed in the Eastern Church to include them) and won't let go. Funnily enough, you can't find a mainstream Christian church that will tell you that they teach that, or that they ever have. But the idea is there, and it came from somewhere.
*glances around guiltily* I once, while kind of drunk (because I never would have asked it without a little 'help' since I had this view of Muslims as sexually repressed at the time...), asked a Muslim message board (in the women's only section I would like to point out!) if it was okay for a husband to bring his wife off, if she asked him to, while she was menstruating in Islam. And I was extremely pleased that the answer was 'yes'. The part about it being without penetration neither pleased nor displeased me, since I understand that the period is viewed as 'dirty' in Islam, though I don't agree with that. But the question was coming off being told by a Christian that the only kind of sex ever allowed was 'missionary' sex, and that ruled out manual manipulation even if both halves of the couple wanted it.
Anyway. The point is, they explained how much of an emphasis there is on both parties being satisfied by the sex. Which I liked. I mean, if half of the party isn't enjoying themselves, you're doing something wrong!
There's a wide variety of things covered under the umbrella of BDSM. I think, if couples decide to look into it, they just have to take it slow, and really feel their way around while being aware of what they're doing.
*nods* The talk is very, very important. I think, if you're at the point where you're considering marriage, you should also be at the point where you can discuss sex. If you're not, then that's something that needs to be dealt with. I go with the philosophy, 'if you can't say it, then you can't do it'.
Heck, learning about sex doesn't even have to involve premarital sex. It's just education and being *aware*.
slice,
ReplyDeleteBDSM - Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism & Masochism.
It's actually an umbrella term for a wide variety of desires and behaviors.
The wiki is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM
if you want a general idea. But it is wiki, and there are a couple pictures, etc.
*claps*
ReplyDeleteI like Candice's idea of everyone writing about this...except that I have very little to say. You already covered a lot! And it probably doesn't apply so much since I'm more of the opinion that even outside marriage it's ok. Hm. I guess a post about what isn't might be interesting, or my views on why it's ok and even good (sometimes).
It is a talk that needs to happen in a serious couple...and just a subject that should be more open in society in general. I think a lot of girls grow up just being told not to do it and that they shouldn't even be talking/thinking about it. It winds up causing problems in several ways. If no one talks about it, they don't always know where the boundaries are and how to speak up for themselves when they're not comfortable, and wind up in damaging sexual relationships (by which I'm including even something as minor as kissing, not necessarily that they're actually having sex - any act they're not comfortable with but don't know how to say no to). Sorry, that's not really on topic, but I think it's related. Making sex and sex-talk taboo causes a whole bunch of problems, basically.
Blogger ate my comment! Baaaad blogger.
ReplyDeleteI was never taught this mentality of which you speak in your comment. And I never "caught" it either despite your saying it is in Western Christianity.
Instead verses about being satisfied with the wife of your youth and let her breasts satisfy you and Songs of Sol which taught sexual pleasure within marriage. The catch was within marriage, but we never were told it was only for procreation.
Enjoyed the post!
sanil,
ReplyDelete*grr* Blogger is eating things again!
Anyway!
I think you should do your own post. This isn't just about sex in marriage, though that's what I felt like talking about. It started out with a post about sex, sex toys, and Islam. Mine has little to nothing to do with that. It's about our perceptions of sex, more than anything else. Talk about what you want to talk about!
I believe we need to be more open and comfortable about talking about sex in a reasonable and adult manner. Oddly enough, in spite of the prevalence of sexual imagery, etc. that so many complain about in the media we still remain (generally), culturally uncomfortable with sex.
Susanne,
ReplyDeleteThat's actually one of my points. I find the attitude prevalent in Western Christianity, but I can't quite figure out why. I blame the Puritans and the Victorians, really, but it may go back further than that. But it is by no means in *every* church. Especially once you get into Protestant circles, where every single church can sort of do their own thing and still be counted under the blanket denominational title of 'Episcopalian', 'Evangelical', 'Baptist', etc.
But like I was saying, one of my points is, while I find the attitude prevalent in Western Christianity (and as I said, it may exist in the East as well, but I don't know enough to say one way or the other), it doesn't exist in the Christian Scriptures, or in the earliest writings and teachings of the Church. It's an innovation! And a damaging one at that.
I agree with your approach to sex, but I'm curious how those who don't have sex before marriage would know what their kinks are (I mean aside from "I think I *might* like x, y, or z). I don't think you can really know what you like sexually until you've tried it.
ReplyDeleteZuhura,
ReplyDeleteWell, they obviously won't know as hard and fast as people who have had sex and experimented, but in my experience, you trip over things that arouse you even before you've had sex. I personally tripped over one of my kinks in a totally nonsexual environment and way. And I can tell you that I definitely, immediately knew that it was arousing to me.
I guess sometimes they're only arousing in theory, but you know enough to say, 'well, I like *this*' and to go from there.
I suppose if you were a virgin then the conversation would be less along the lines of 'this is what I like' and more along the lines of, 'I find this idea arousing and would like to try it at some point'.
I really really enjoyed this post!
ReplyDeleteAnd like everyone else I think it's a very important topic that we do not need to be ashamed off.
However, as my post is semi-public (everything gets automatically posted onto my FB profile) I'm not sure I would feel entirely comfortable discussing my views for everyone to see, even if completely generalized.
I really like what you said, that whatever is done with mutual acceptance between the couple goes. I agree with that 100%. I do think it's incredibly important for a couple to be compatible in this area.
I feel that within Christian mentality (the kind of Christian mentality that I grew up with anyway), there's still a lot of shame concerning sex, especially masturbation as well.
I think Zuhura raises a very valid point, and actually, I would have to say that my "kinks" and the things that arouses me have changed a lot over the years, and things I wouldn't have been open to at all before having sex, ended up being a huge turn-on.
ReplyDeleteBecky,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you enjoyed the post. :)
We do need to not be ashamed about sex, or talking about it, in the proper time and place. I don't think any of us are talking about just randomly spouting off sexual facts at any old time. :)
Hmmm...I respect your issue, and of course no one has to talk about their sexual views if they don't want to. However, the post need not be specific or in any way about your personal preferences. Neither Candice nor myself put in anything specific about our likes or dislikes. It's a general post, not tailored to detail about something that is not everyone in the world's business.
There are a lot of hang-ups about sex in the Christian world, in general.
Don't get me started on the masturbation one. That's just...infuriating.
I agree that Zuhura has a point. Maybe I was giving people too much credit - comparing the general populace too much to myself. I knew a ton of things about sex and what aroused me before I ever even kissed another person. Our sexual repertoire will, of course, grow as we gain experience, but, speaking from my own and that of a few good friends, we do get a general heading of what interests us, sometimes even specific things, without having to have sex to do so.