Am I the only one angered every time I'm reminded about the Mormon practice of baptising random deceased people?
I get that if Mormonism is incorrect, then it makes no difference at all and if it is correct then it's just offering people a choice but it still just makes me grind my teeth.
I read someone arguing that it shows how much the Mormon faith values each and every human soul that has ever been on the planet, but I see it as very disrespectful. I should really have some sort of argument or something here, I know, but I don't. I could, but I'm just not going to go into the lack of honesty involved, retroactively trying to make everyone Mormon, or the utter (again) lack of respect for the beliefs and lives of the people that they're doing this to. I just get this urge to go up to random Mormon's and go, 'Hands off my ancestors!'
*sigh*
It's irrational, I know. Then again, Mormonism is one of the (few) religions that I just cannot deal with. I find them bizarre and I don't like them, in general. I've never, to my knowledge, even *met* a Mormon, but I'm prejudiced against them. I'm not proud of it, but that's just the way it is. For some reason I don't trust them and this is one of those things that just makes me go, 'Yeah. Creepy and weird. Stop it.' and reinforces my feelings of dislike and distrust.
I've met a Mormon or two in passing, but they aren't numerous around here. I see the missionary guys around town every once in a while. I do read a few Mormon blogs, and those ladies seem fine (except way too perfect, but I understand that better after reading a post about their not believing in hell, BUT wanting to make it to the TOP level of heaven.)
ReplyDeleteAll that to say, yeah, I can see how baptizing for the dead of other faiths would be offensive for many folks! Then again I wonder if any of them would care enough about ME to get baptized for my soul. Probably not. :)
I think I've seen Mormon missionaries but I don't think that I've ever spoken to any. Probably for the best. We had 7th Day Adventist missionaries come around once and I implied that my dog was part wolf. It seemed to end the conversation quickly for some reason. *clearly has a thing about missionaries*
DeleteI'm certain that there are as many lovely, wonderful Mormons as there are of any social group. That doesn't make me any more comfortable with them.
Then again I wonder if any of them would care enough about ME to get baptized for my soul. Probably not. :)
Any of the Mormons? Or any people of other faiths?
I know what you mean. Of all religions, its the one I have the most difficult time being open minded about. I just cant wrap my head around their religion at all.
ReplyDeleteI don't even really know why. I mean I have reasons for why I think they're wrong, or just not for me, on many things but I have that for other religions as well. But for some reason Mormonism just elicits a negative reaction from me. :(
DeleteI've known quite a few Mormons, but I didn't know about that practice. Or rather, it sounds vaguely familiar but isn't something I'd ever thought about and so I didn't really remember it and associate it with Mormons.
ReplyDeleteI can see why some people would be offended by the practice, but it doesn't really bother me. I guess I can sort of understand it because I've struggled with a similar issue in my own practice. Part of ADF (and much of Paganism) involves calling and working with ancestors. At first I worried that this was offensive because as far as I know, all of the ancestors I know are Christian. Why would they want to be called for a pagan ritual? Eventually as I read other people's blogs, I realized I wasn't forcing anyone and thought about it in a different way. It all depends on how you see souls and afterlife. If they are still living and have the potential to make decisions for themselves, then who knows? Maybe they do want to take part in a religion that wasn't theirs in life.
All I do in a ritual is sort of put out notice. If any of my ancestors want to work with me and/or attend the ritual, that's awesome. If they don't, I still remember them for who they were in life and honor that without pulling them into mine. And as I've talked about a bit on my blog, I think at least one of them who I knew alive has chosen to come work with me. So maybe somewhere there is this lineup of dead people just waiting for the Mormons to baptize them. :D Maybe at everyone's funerals, they should be welcomed by clergy of every faith - just in case! I'm being a little flippant and possibly disrespectful here, in which case I'm sorry. But all I really mean is that I think the respect is in how it's handled, and in this case I don't know how it's handled. I would have issues with a baptism that claimed to convert anyone whether they wanted it or not, or claiming to speak for those people and say (for example) that my aunt is a Mormon now. In the same way, though I do think she sometimes comes to work with me and join my rituals, I wouldn't try to speak for her and say why she's doing it or claim that she's a Pagan. That would be disrespectful in my mind. On the other hand, I'm fine with providing a way for people to convert or to participate post-death if they want it, without making any claims that it has actually happened.
See, I have no problem with the way you're outlining the ancestor worship or potential participation in your rites. Doesn't bug me in the least and I think that that's a very good way to explain how it works; that you put out the invitation and it's up to them whether they want to come or not.
DeleteI can even apply that same thinking to the Mormon rite. The difference is, it *bugs* me no matter how I try and think about it when I'm thinking about Mormons. That's why I said it was a prejudice. It's not rational but there it is.
I'm not aware of anyone claiming that the baptism for the dead makes the deceased automatically a Mormon. It's like you said, in theory it gives the deceased the opportunity to convert if they want to.
Ah, that makes sense. I'm like that with "free thinkers", oddly enough. I agree with just about everything they believe and have called myself a humanist before, but almost all of the people I've known to actually use that term have been so snarky and disrespectful of religion! I just want nothing to do with it and will get annoyed by anything they say even when they're spouting my own views. :D
Delete(In case you haven't heard that term before: Free thinkers will often describe themselves as simply anti-dogma and advocating that people challenge ideas and find what makes sense. But if the ideas someone winds up finding true aren't ones that can be proven rationally and are based on personal subjective experience, that person is rejected. Drives me crazy.)
I was thinking of this post while sweeping the kitchen just now and remembered a story I saw not long ago about a man in France getting de-baptized. Apparently he was baptized as an infant and since he didn't consent to that (sound familiar, Mormons?) and was now an atheist, he wanted to be officially un-baptized in the eyes of whatever.
ReplyDeleteMaybe these people who were baptized into the Mormon faith without their consent, can request debaptism as well... the comments above about people in the afterlife choosing to accept another faith (or reject it) made me think of this.
o.O
DeleteIf he's an atheist then he doesn't believe that there's any god at all so the baptism didn't do anything. So what on earth is he being un-baptized in the eyes of? I know he's probably just trying to make a statement, but it doesn't make sense to me.
What did they do? Dry him off really well? *ponders what an un-baptism ceremony would be like*
OK, make of it what you will
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2840503/posts
Well okay, he's just asking to have his name removed from the Church records. That's not what I was imagining! I was picturing like a reverse-baptism ceremony of some kind! :D
DeleteIt seems like he just doesn't want to be associated with the Catholic Church in any way any more and I don't see why they can't remove his name from the records. It doesn't change the fact that he was baptised, whether or not he believes that meant anything.
This is news! I didn't know Mormons baptised the deceased. Pretty weird.
ReplyDeleteThey do. Mormons are *weird*. Which is totally my opinion. But absolutely true!
Delete