Well, the Orthodox take on it is a bit different from the Catholic take on it. I'd have to go do some homework to actually articulate the difference. But in summary: The doctrine of the immaculate conception of Mary is rendered moot because we are essentially ALL immaculately conceived. And then we sin because of inherited weakness, sinful environment, a sin-sick world. But we don't inherit guilt. So, original sin is more about skewing the environment (sin as sickness) towards sin than inheritance of the guilt of Adam.
Clear as mud. I'd really have to go look it up to get a better answer for you, from an Orthodox persepctive, but what it's NOT is pelagianism. Hairs being split.
Original sin is the fallen nature we are born with. We don't tend towards goodness, but towards selfishness. You never have to teach a child to lie, steal or be stingy about sharing. Why? It comes naturally.
Consequently, we are all sinners and the Bible is clear that the wages of sin is death. Thankfully the verse doesn't stop there. The GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I am one of those Protestants who does read the Bible. (grin) I may not apply it as I should, but, Lord willing, one day. I keep putting stuff on my blog from things I read hoping one day I can achieve all that. Through Christ who strengthens me, right? Eh sure...but that selfish drive is so strong and hatefulness? Oooo, I hate to admit how awful I can be in my thoughts and attitude sometime.
I can strongly relate to Paul's "O wretched man that I am who can save me from this body of sin" statement.
So maybe you don't want to be friends with me now that you know all that. :-D
Great questions. I'm eager to read YOUR thoughts on this topic.
We can inherit the consequences, if that's the right word, of the fall, but not the guilt of the actual act that caused it. After all, if we did, then we'd be being condemned for a sin we didn't commit. *ponders*
Thanks. It's true that, often, maybe even 99.999999% of the time, our first impulse is selfish.
Going off of Alana's comment, do you think that we just inherit the propensity to sin, or is some of the guilt from the first sin passed down to us? *is curious*
'I am one of those Protestants who does read the Bible. (grin)'
*heh* I did suspect that about you. :)
*gasp* Susanne! You're not perfect?!? I am both shocked and horrified! *averts eyes*
*can't keep it up and bursts into laughter*
I am going to say what I think, but I want to reference some books, try and get it in a coherent format, so I'll have to do that after I get home tonight.
Ha, ha! Your reaction to my comment was great! :-D :-D :-D
Yes, I am quite the wicked person under this sweet-looking face. Haaaaaaaaa! :-P
I think we inherit the propensity to sin. Not the guilt of the previous generations though their sins DO affect us even though we didn't commit them. (Do you agree?) Like it is something that comes naturally and we don't have to be taught how. I know many argue that we are born pure and sin only because of environmental factors.
So I'm eager to read your thoughts on this matter when you have time to put it all down in a post.
As I say, the horns are there to help hold the halo up. ;)
I do agree that the sins of the 'original' generation affect us. Not those of our immediate antecedents. I don't suffer for the sins of my mother or grandmother for instance. Not in the spiritual sense anyway.
You should see my notes! Mess everywhere! I've actually taken to hand writting out this post to try and get it into order. :)
I'll definitely post it this weekend though. I don't think I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow night, but Saturday for certain.
LOL @ the horns and halo comment! Haaa. I've never heard it quite like that before. Hmmm. :)
No rush on posting your thoughts. Just was rereading this post earlier and saw that you had plans to do it and wanted to remind you.
True about your parents and g-parents' sins not affecting you in the spiritual sense. I didn't really make it clear what I was asking. I DO think one person's sins affect us in physical ways. And maybe even spiritually somewhat...hmmm. I'll have to think on it.
(There's another picture I like better, but Eve's breasts are bare, so you get the clean pic.)
Well, the Orthodox take on it is a bit different from the Catholic take on it. I'd have to go do some homework to actually articulate the difference. But in summary: The doctrine of the immaculate conception of Mary is rendered moot because we are essentially ALL immaculately conceived. And then we sin because of inherited weakness, sinful environment, a sin-sick world. But we don't inherit guilt. So, original sin is more about skewing the environment (sin as sickness) towards sin than inheritance of the guilt of Adam.
ReplyDeleteClear as mud. I'd really have to go look it up to get a better answer for you, from an Orthodox persepctive, but what it's NOT is pelagianism. Hairs being split.
Original sin is the fallen nature we are born with. We don't tend towards goodness, but towards selfishness. You never have to teach a child to lie, steal or be stingy about sharing. Why? It comes naturally.
ReplyDeleteConsequently, we are all sinners and the Bible is clear that the wages of sin is death. Thankfully the verse doesn't stop there. The GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I am one of those Protestants who does read the Bible. (grin) I may not apply it as I should, but, Lord willing, one day. I keep putting stuff on my blog from things I read hoping one day I can achieve all that. Through Christ who strengthens me, right? Eh sure...but that selfish drive is so strong and hatefulness? Oooo, I hate to admit how awful I can be in my thoughts and attitude sometime.
I can strongly relate to Paul's "O wretched man that I am who can save me from this body of sin" statement.
So maybe you don't want to be friends with me now that you know all that. :-D
Great questions. I'm eager to read YOUR thoughts on this topic.
Alana,
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, you made sense. :)
The premise makes sense as well, I think.
We can inherit the consequences, if that's the right word, of the fall, but not the guilt of the actual act that caused it. After all, if we did, then we'd be being condemned for a sin we didn't commit. *ponders*
Susanne,
ReplyDeleteThanks. It's true that, often, maybe even 99.999999% of the time, our first impulse is selfish.
Going off of Alana's comment, do you think that we just inherit the propensity to sin, or is some of the guilt from the first sin passed down to us? *is curious*
'I am one of those Protestants who does read the Bible. (grin)'
*heh* I did suspect that about you. :)
*gasp* Susanne! You're not perfect?!? I am both shocked and horrified! *averts eyes*
*can't keep it up and bursts into laughter*
I am going to say what I think, but I want to reference some books, try and get it in a coherent format, so I'll have to do that after I get home tonight.
Ha, ha! Your reaction to my comment was great! :-D :-D :-D
ReplyDeleteYes, I am quite the wicked person under this sweet-looking face. Haaaaaaaaa! :-P
I think we inherit the propensity to sin. Not the guilt of the previous generations though their sins DO affect us even though we didn't commit them. (Do you agree?) Like it is something that comes naturally and we don't have to be taught how. I know many argue that we are born pure and sin only because of environmental factors.
So I'm eager to read your thoughts on this matter when you have time to put it all down in a post.
Good thought-provoking stuff! Thanks!
Susanne,
ReplyDelete:-p
As I say, the horns are there to help hold the halo up. ;)
I do agree that the sins of the 'original' generation affect us. Not those of our immediate antecedents. I don't suffer for the sins of my mother or grandmother for instance. Not in the spiritual sense anyway.
You should see my notes! Mess everywhere! I've actually taken to hand writting out this post to try and get it into order. :)
I'll definitely post it this weekend though. I don't think I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow night, but Saturday for certain.
LOL @ the horns and halo comment! Haaa. I've never heard it quite like that before. Hmmm. :)
ReplyDeleteNo rush on posting your thoughts. Just was rereading this post earlier and saw that you had plans to do it and wanted to remind you.
True about your parents and g-parents' sins not affecting you in the spiritual sense. I didn't really make it clear what I was asking. I DO think one person's sins affect us in physical ways. And maybe even spiritually somewhat...hmmm. I'll have to think on it.
Susanne,
ReplyDelete*grin*
I didn't make the Saturday deadline I'd given myself anyway. :)