Saturday, November 14, 2009

Christianity: Yer Doin' It *Wrong*

Through my random trolling about the internet, I stumbled on this article: A Righteous Lie? I actually came to it through a link from this article, A moral conundrum, resolved with scripture. Keep in mind, if you go to the second article, that this is an atheist site, so...*hand wavey* be warned.

*However* it's the entire freaking premise of the *first* article that is the problem.

Here ya go:

It's Nazi Germany. You, a Christian citizen, either know the wherabouts of, or are personally hiding a family of Jews from the Third Reich.

Nazi's show up at your door, demanding the whereabouts of this family.

As a Christian, what do you do?

Now, my first answer, my second, third, fourth, final unto freakin' INFINITY answer is: Lie. My. Ass. Off. Lie, lie like the wind. Lie like a rug. Lie like I've never lied before. Lie and pray that the jackbooted thugs don't realize that I'm lying and go the hell away.

What is the answer of Mr. Bodie Hodge of 'Answers in Genesis' (hereafter referred to in my mind as Captain Douchebag), which appears to be a 'strict interpretation' Creationist website? (So we know I love them already, *blech*)


Why, you may ask, are we handing over an innocent family to people who want to imprison, torture, and murder them in ways most people would never even think of because they're so fucking horrific?

Because: Lying is a sin.

*head desk to infinity*

No no, really. *holds up hands like a scale* Lying to SAVE LIVES vs. HANDING THEM OVER TO THEIR MURDERERS?

How is that even a QUESTION?

I would lie. All the people I know would lie. ANYONE WITH A SOUL WOULD LIE! And if you wouldn't lie, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU!

You're honestly telling me you think you can do that, then go before God when you die, and He's not gonna call you on that?

"Oh, oh, Um, I see here that you, ah, handed over a family to the Nazi's. Care to explain?"

"well, lyings a sin, see, and i didn't wanna lie and everybody dies anyway and maybe it was Your plan and..."

"Ah. I see...*cough* ARE YOU DEFICIENT?" *smites**presses button for secretary* "Janice, yes, please call Charon, I need him to give Mr. Missed-the-Point a ride down south. Thanks."

*twitches in rage*

One of the things he says is that you don't know for sure that your lie will save a life. To this, I say, SO. WHAT.

Yeah, maybe the Nazi's wouldn't believe you. Maybe they'd insist on searching and find them anyway, and you'd be taken along with the Jewish family. SO WHAT? There is right, and there is wrong. Handing innocent people over to be murdered is WRONG! It's ALWAYS WRONG!

You know what this is? It's an *excuse for COWARDICE*. CD up there is thinking about being in this situation, and he's AFRAID that the Nazi's will take him, and do terrible, awful things to him. So, instead, he's managed to figure out a way to save his own ass and justify it.

So the Nazi's find them. You die. Is it pretty? Probably not. But you die having done the right thing. You get to go before God, saying, "I tried. I gave it my all." And I'd sure as hell rather do that, than live my life *knowing* I'd sent innocents to their death and then have to face God with that on my soul.


  1. O_O


    I dunno what else to say....

  2. In Judaism it has always been considered ok to break a commandment in order to save a life. This situation would definitely qualify.
    Plus, bearing false witness and lying are slightly differing categories.

  3. Ohhhh, yes. Stay far far FAR away from AiG. *shudders* The church I grew up in LOVES them. >.<

    I don't even see lying as a sin, but even if you do, SHEESH. Some perspective, people!

    Thanks for drawing attention to the article. :) If only I believed bringing it to the pastor back home would actually make a difference.

  4. Woooooooow. That's all I can say. Sorry, but essentially murdering people by telling the bad dudes where they are is waaay worse than lying. *head desk* How do some people come up with this stuff?

  5. I like these guy's perspective on it better. What do you think?

    Sanil, why don't you think lying in sinful? Do you mean ALL cases are fine? How do you justify that with all the verses about not lying? I'm sure you have a good reason so I'm interested in hearing it. :)

  6. I'm with LK - wtf? Some people need to reconsider their priorities...

  7. Susanne - I wouldn't say ALL cases are fine, but it's more about what the lie's being used to do than the lie itself. Basically, I don't know of any verses to say lying is a sin. The AiG article even very briefly mentions that the commandment is actually about false WITNESS, but then they deal with translating "false" as if the "witness" part of it doesn't exist. :-/ As far as I can see, that verse clearly is about lying in a certain context, to falsely condemn someone (or falsely prove innocent). The other verses the article quotes again seem to me to be about specific lies that were in the writers' opinions leading their communities away from the true faith. Sort of a false witness against Christ. The lies the article's actually talking about, Rahab or hiding people from killers, are shown to be good in the Bible. Rahab may not be outright praised, but she's certainly not criticized and her actions are shown to be good for Israel.

    Off topic, but the AiG article is also pretty tricksy with what it calls a lie. They claim that the midwives in Egypt didn't LIE, they just took their sweet time getting to the Hebrew moms. But in that case they're lying about doing their jobs and deliberately misleading! Maybe it's just me, but that sure sounds like a lie to me. I think even AiG knows they're full of it on this one.

  8. This is what happens when people go Cowboy and try and do Christianity on their own.

    Thank GOD we have the Church to help guide us if/when we have to face such horrible decisions.

  9. LK,

    I know, that was my first reaction too. Clearly, though, I found something to say. :)

  10. Stacy,

    false witness v. lying: you're right, and I think they're deliberately misunderstanding what is written, so it says what they want.

  11. Sanil,

    I'd never even heard of them before, and I have no intention of ever looking at them again. Lots of cursing seems to be the only result for me.

  12. Heather,

    They feel free to interpret Scripture without any frame work or guide. And that enables them to read what they want to into it.

    I'm not even just talking about the Church (though I think that's the best way), but a simple look at history, at what has *always* been believed.

  13. Susanne,

    While his answer is better, he still qualifies it with 'probably' the right thing to do.

    There's no 'probably' about it. In this situation, which is an extreme example, I'll give you that, it is the right thing to do. Full stop.

  14. Sophia,

    I know. I try to see everyones point of view, but sometimes I just can't get my head that far up my ass.

  15. Sanil,

    Oh, excellent answer.

    I think lying is not recommended, certainly, and most of the time, if you're lying, its not for any good readon, it's to cover up something you shouldn't have done.

    And yeah, they play fast and loose with what they consider a lie or not a lie. Excellent point.

  16. What the heck?! I totally agree! Anyone in that situation should LIE!

  17. Candice,

    Yeah, this is a clear example of people with their priorities skewed. Badly.


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