Tuesday, September 21, 2010

What Do You Do With the Body?

This is one of those open ended questions.

I was poking around on the OrthodoxChristianity board and came across a thread discussing whether or not it was appropriate for Christians to be cremated. After all, we're told that we will be bodily resurrected, so why destroy the body? Not that anyone is implying that God cannot resurrect your body from ashes, but rather, what's the point of the cremation?

There's a lot of talk on the thread about the pagan origins of cremation and some adherents gnostic reasoning for cremation, i.e.: the body is just a vessel and doesn't really matter.

When I was coming into Roman Catholicism we were taught that the Roman church allowed for cremation (which was a change from previous policy, but please don't ask me for the year that change occurred since I don't recall), provided that it was being done for (essentially) financial reasons and not because of a disregard for the physical body.

Many of the people on the thread seem to hold that the correct way to deal with the deceased is to not even embalm them, but rather that they should be buried in as natural a state as possible. I'm not clear on whether or not this is Orthodox teaching or not, since there is apparently some disagreement between Orthodox parties as to whether or not cremation, etc. is allowable under 'normal' circumstances. No one argues that extraordinary events (disease, natural disaster, etc.) don't change things so that necessity may mean that a person needs to be cremated. One poster pointed out that it is the law in Japan that people must be cremated, and so the Orthodox in Japan are cremated because it's the law. Anyway.

The best, imho, argument against cremation that I saw was that even after death the persons body remains the temple of God. The Holy Spirit has dwelt within it and changed it by it's presence. The same theory that impacts holy relics. Many of the people on the post seem to be of the opinion that the *best* and most correct and Christian way of dealing with a corpse is to bury it in as natural a state as possible. So no cremation, and if possible (I guess some states/countries may have laws about it - see Japan) no embalming.

Of course the discussion also has expanded a tad to include organ donation, which I have to admit I've always been personally against. I get that people do it out of a desire to help others, but *ugh*. It gives me the willies. I want all my bits with me, not wandering around in other peoples bodies. Which I have been informed is 'selfish', but I can't help it. I'm not even certain that I would *take* a donated organ for myself if given the choice. A part of someone else grafted into me? *shudder* But then, of course, I am thankfully not in a position where I might need one, thank God, and I hope to never be. And opinions change as need arises.

What do you think is the correct way to deal with a loved ones body? Why? Do you think it matters? And I'm not just limiting this to the Christians, of course. Anyone who has an opinion, please answer. I'm curious. :)

16 comments:

  1. I personally don't think it matters. We all turn to ash in the end and return to the soil. We all return to God no matter what happens to our body. Its like some ideas that if you loose your hand you won't be able to go to heaven unless that hand is buried with your body. You will end up in a state of limbo. But it doesn't make sense you know?

    I can understand your fear against organ donation. Most I know who don't like it site the "hand situation" I mentioned above. I'm totally cool with it but my mom also needs a kidney or two. Things change when it hits home. I figure if I'm dead I'm sure not gonna use it so someone else might as well.

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  2. Though people who keep other people in urns inside their houses...THAT is creepy O_O

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  3. I'm fine with cremation. Peoples' bodies have been burned for ages - some voluntarily (choosing cremation), some not (burned in Nero's garden), but God is able to gather up all the pieces if He needs our bodies back. We all return to dust anyway .. unless it's a heck of an embalming job. :) So is gathering dust or gathering ashed hard for God? No.

    I think organ donation is terrific though I can understand the creep factor. But when it comes to a loved one - like LK's mom - needing something and not having a kidney available, it does hit home more. I know many people are comforted by the fact that though their loved one is dead, his/her organs have been used so others can have life. It is a very lovely gift to my thinking. I may not choose an organ for myself, but if it were my child needing one, I think I'd be joyful and grateful to anyone offering.

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  4. hmm this is a hard one as many things in life conflict with my faith...

    When I die I have given strict instructions I am to be creamated. I cannot abide the thought of being in the ground with wiggly worms etc. My will is quite detailed, I have even chosen my hymns and no one is to wear black. sounds morbid, at the age of 33 I have this all planned and documented. But I did this with my sister when she did hers (she had cancer at the time and I pleased to tell you that she is currently clear Hooray!)

    I also would not want some one to display me or dig me up, even in the name of science or what not...

    http://hubpages.com/hub/King-Arthurs-Stonehenge-campaign-to-return-the-bones

    each to their own I guess.

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  5. sorry forgot to comment on the organ donation. I say take what you want. if I have anything worth taking you can have it. I like the thought that if I died suddenly, and I didnt have a disease, that many people would have a chance at living a full life.

    who knows, I could donate a kidney to someone who invents the cure for all cancer. How could I not invest in that future thought.

    have a great day everyone

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  6. LK,

    That hand thing? I have never heard of that. Huh. No, it makes no sense. I mean, what if you're circumcised? Do you need to keep the foreskin in a jar? Baby teeth? Wisdom teeth? Appendix? After birth? Umbilical cord? All the hair you ever have cut, or your nails? Where do you draw that line? And what about people who die in accidents and they never find all the parts? Would God really deny you entry to heaven because of an accident of fate? Nah.

    I'm not personally sure the whole cremation/burial/embalming thing matters. I've always said the funeral, etc. stuff was silly and to just dig a hole in the back yard when it's my time. Everything else seems like an insane waste of money to me.

    I don't even know that my thing about the organ donation is a 'fear' - the idea just makes me squiggy when I think about it involving me. But I know that I say that from the point of view of neither needing an organ, or even knowing someone that needs one. Which is why I said that ideas change as circumstances demand. I can't say what I would think or feel if it was my mother who needed a transplant. Likely I'd be all aboard the donation train, because hell, it's my *mother*.

    And actually, I would totally keep any family members who were cremated in the house. Right next to the pets we've had cremated. :) I'd have loved to have kept my grandfathers ashes, but my grandmother had his ashes buried in her churches memorial garden.

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  7. Susanne,

    Right, people have been cremated for ages. I actually find death ceremonies fascinating. There's this one tribe in the...Amazon, I think, that keeps their dead in the house. They sort of mummify and then they bring them out for certain festivals so that the family member can participate. Or the ones that practice cannibalism to keep the spirit with them. Oh! Or those that leave them out for the birds to pick clean. All very practical for their environment which seems to dictate more than religious belief what is done with a body. Religious belief seems to be framed around the necessity.

    The involuntarily cremated/eaten/destroyed bodies, like I said, were never really an issue. Of course we all know God can do whatever He wants. I think (honestly) the aversion to cremation is a reaction to the heretical belief that matter is evil.

    *nods* Like I said - if it were an actual issue for me, my opinion would likely be very different. I get to talk from the peanut gallery, where it doesn't impact me. We had an obit run just the other day where a little two year old girl died (I don't know how) and her family donated many of her organs - one, her heart I think, went to a little one year old. I get and understand why people would want to 'give the gift of life', and would never condemn or try to convince someone that they shouldn't. Mine is a purely personal wiggins.

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  8. slice,

    *nods* I know one person who is so claustrophobic that she's being cremated so she doesn't have to be locked in a tiny box. She knows, rationally, that she'll be dead and not aware of the fact that she's in a box but the idea freaks her out so very much she's made the choice because of it. I don't get it, but I'm not claustrophobic.

    My will is quite detailed, I have even chosen my hymns and no one is to wear black. sounds morbid, at the age of 33 I have this all planned and documented. But I did this with my sister when she did hers (she had cancer at the time and I pleased to tell you that she is currently clear Hooray!)

    First, Yay! for your sister being clear and I pray that she stays that way. It actually makes perfectly good sense to have a will and have everything you can planned out. Despite your (or anyones) young age you don't ever know what could happen. Not everyone dies of old age and accidents happen. I should probably make some sort of will myself. Who should get custody of the library? But first I'd have to decide what I want done with my body, funeral, etc. I've never spent much time thinking about that really.

    I also would not want some one to display me or dig me up, even in the name of science or what not...

    So you're not about to become one of those Bodies displays, huh? The ones that are turned into plastic? Those are actually fascinating.

    Organ donation is an excellent thing. It just gives me a personal 'ugh'.

    who knows, I could donate a kidney to someone who invents the cure for all cancer. How could I not invest in that future thought.

    Or your kidney could go to the inventor of the next hydrogen bomb. Or a serial killer. Not that that should stop anyone from donating! You can never know who will get your gift and you can't judge based on what may or may not happen. People who donate are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and I think that's awesome, really. I'm just not sure I could do it, or take one for me.

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  9. "Or your kidney could go to the inventor of the next hydrogen bomb. Or a serial killer. Not that that should stop anyone from donating! You can never know who will get your gift and you can't judge based on what may or may not happen."

    This reminds me of high school. One of my teachers told us his father didn't want to be an organ donor because "what if they took by eyes and then looked at pornography" and such things. My teacher would just goodnaturedly roll his eyes and smile. HE was an organ donor in spite of his dad's misgivings about it. :)

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  10. Amber: So YOU are one of those weird people that keeps dead people in the house?! lol

    I think my parents still have my dog's ashes...I think its weird O_O

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  11. Susanne,

    See, I'm sorry, but that's just silly. You cannot be held 'responsible' for what someone might do with your organ if they got it. It's like not donating blood because it might go to a 'bad person'.

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  12. Yes, that's why my teacher rolled his eyes at his father's foolish talk. :)

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  13. LK,

    Yes, I would be. :) They'd be in very nice containers and I wouldn't just tell visitors what they were unless they asked, since I know it creeps some people out, but yes. Fair warning to all my family: if you're cremated, I will keep you on a shelf.

    We've got our dog Buddy and my cat Loki in the house in their boxes. I talk to Loki sometimes.

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  14. Susanne,

    *nods* I got it. :) It's funny, I see all sorts of practical and very good reasons for organ donation, and I'm still wigged by it in relation to me. It makes no sense.

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  15. Amber: But see I just finished watching Dexter Season 4 and now urns just creep me out....*shivers*

    But its cool if you wanna collect them *JK JK* lol

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  16. I haven't seen season 4 yet! I really really want to, but I'm being fiscally responsible!

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